If you then swap to CCI 450 Magnums instead and do the same incremental work up your extreme spread at 2950 - 2970 fps will be down around 8-10 fps.If you keep going higher than 2970 your extreme spreads will quickly hit 75 fps or more and you accuracy will also go away very quickly. Stupid accurate, and stupid expensive (over $5,000). recommendations. Standard Deviation 25 5. This bullet seating configuration is referred to as touching the lands, or touching the riflings and is a very important measurement to understand for precision handloading. Here’s how to start and finish load work-up in one day. literature. Ive used N320 not too long ago in 9mm. Velocity directly impacts time of flight which in turn effects windage and elevation adjustments. The average of all 100 Hornady A-TIP 6mm bullets was a 10.6″ wide horizontal spread and a 9″ vertical spread. I'm using just an electronic Hornady manual scale. Thru 16 rounds, I had an extreme spread of 26 fps and most were within 13fps of each other. I know for precision shooting single digits SDs are desired but I am looking for range use bulk reloading I am wondering if my 25-30 FPS SD or so is considered acceptable. Extreme spread: Highest velocity minus lowest velocity for the string fired over the screens. For a deer hunting load, it was a toss up between 48.0 grains of IMR-3031 or 54.0 grains of Varget with the Gould’s bullet. Some one will chime in here with their powder charge and 168s. Reloading 101: Measuring group size and converting to MOA. But a wind shift can also throw a shot off-target completely. Depending on the number of shots and more, SD can be misleading because it gets a little smaller with greater amounts of input. The average group size measured 2.21 inches, with the smallest at 1.039 inch. SHTF stock & practice ammo that can still expand at a certain velocity. Nothing to do with reloading should be arbitrary! So with an SD of 10 fps and an average of 3,000 fps, you could expect 95% of your shots to have a muzzle velocity between 2980 and 3020 fps. For instance, the 0.36 inch spread at 100 yards with the 105 Gr. Extreme Spread: 22.37 fps (2951.37 high, 2929 low) The chronograph data is actually pretty decent, but the average velocity is higher than the same load with Hornady or Lapua brass (both hover at 2910fps). Muzzle energy is calculated from bullet weight and average velocity. On the surface, this theoretically means that the .40 S&W has more stopping power than the 9mm. Unique provided the most uniform velocities, with a 15 fps spread for five shots in the Gold Cup. Don’t remember the details, but I suppose he allowed the barrel to cool between shots, and may have used an indoor temperature-controlled range. On a good day, the No. FMJ – 125 Rounds. Surprisingly, it doesn't take ultra extreme consistency in powder charges to get it. ... RCBS RockCucker…..Extreme Spread -0.005 to 0.011 inches, Average 0.001 inches The next article in this series will be NOT using the Dillon powder measure. I really like Varmint Al's website. This was due to the amount of cordite in the powder. This velocity will make the .357 legal out of a rifle with 20 inch barrel to 1000fpe plus at 100 yards. I have a ChargeMaster 1500 for my rifle hunting and accuracy loads but, I was looking to load some Range/ Plinking loads (faster production time) from bulk .308 FMJ and once fired brass. More recently I have been running some of my light and mid-range 357 Magnum loads over the chronograph and the extreme spread, "ES" of many of these loads seem quite high. Extreme spread / 2.326. 165 grain tsx, slightly off topic, but they just generally are not that accurate for me. Despite the damage, the penetration is encouraging--probably a good elk bullet at 50 - 300 yards in the .300 Win Mag. I'll pass, thanks. Ramsay, MT. The numbers over the chrono need to be acceptable (Extreme Spread less than about 25 for 10 rounds), but don’t choose a less accurate load because it looks better on the chrono. View Quote What you're looking for is the coefficient of variation - as others have alluded to, it's your standard deviation divided by your average. Our chronographs can tell us alot more about our ammunition than just muzzle velocity. hide. That… So I shot some of my 9mm loads over a chronograph and I shot 3.6 grains of solo 1000 over 135 grain bayou round nose bullet. Plus, you can't really work up max or max+ loads without knowing the MV. I am currently messing with ETR-7 like … The Rossi carbine with the Cast Performance 180 gr LBTat 1900fps gave an average of ten shots with an extreme spread of 36fps. In the past, shooters used extreme spread or mean absolute deviation as the indicator of uniformity. 4 comments. Extreme spread for 5-shot groups = Standard deviation X 2.326. 29.54 So basically what do you consider acceptable spread in velocity? ... acceptable for loads approaching max. If you have experience reloading for bolt guns, you’ll need to leave some of that knowledge behind. The Challenge of Distance 1000-yard Benchrest competition is the ultimate challenge for man and gun. Want automated extreme powder load accuracy? The first is a 5906 PPC9 6”. Oldfart got it right again. Extreme velocity spread does differ a lot. As an example we can look at a standard 6BR with a fed 205m primer.As you get past 2900fps your extreme spreads will be around 60 fps and as you increase your powder charge in 0.1 grain increments which is usually a 10 fps velocity increase your extreme spreads will drop.When you get around 2950-2970 fps velocity your extreme spreads will be around 20-25 fps with no regards … Unique provided the most uniform velocities, with a 15 fps spread for five shots in the Gold Cup. Trajectory validation is the final step for building confidence in a long range precision rifle. 3. That will probably get you the best accuracy. When conditions are right, a good shooter can put ten shots into a pattern you can cover with the palm of your hand. In the old days of reloading brass, temperature fluctuations caused a great deal of issues on the powder charge, causing extreme differences in the way the ammo performed. Extreme spread 94.8 Ave. Deviation 22.39 Stand. Now that we know what bullets they were loading, let’s look at what propellant they paired those with. At that point, the extreme velocity spread, which had been fluctuating from 42 to 67 fps, sudde~y bounced to 256 fps and groups dissolved into patterns. I have yet to calculate an SD that put its single figure greater than my extreme spread records. 10 rounds were carefully assembled using each primer, and the velocity, extreme spread and SD were then recorded. They are a dream to handle when reloading. I buy boxes of Xtreme Bullets at Phillips Wholesale in Covina California. Empty boxes are put to use by a friend who collects \ cleans \ sells brass. I use Starline brass, CCI SPP primers and Alliant Unique powder. No, that is not what it's intended purpose was and might not expand reliably within a larger extreme spread of … save. If … Trajectory Validation: Ten Steps for Success. The number, 2.326, varies with shots per group. The lowest weight was 191.4grs and the highest was 201.4grs. For long range ammo an ES of 10-15 is max. 0. The differences in weight while not too extreme made me wonder how much of a difference it made in accuracy. Only one load was down below 40. Barrel length is 4.14” and I used an OCL of 1.142”/29mm. Well, from my calculations 26 fps velocity extreme spread is only ~0.6 inch in vertical dimension @ 300 yards. Also known as drop truing, it’s the process of tuning a ballistic solver to a scope, rifle, and its ammunition. On one of our 7MM Remington Magnums with a 162 grain Hornady ELDM bullet this velocity difference translates into about 10 -12” difference at 1000 yards. John-Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago. ES - Extreme Spread ES = Hi - Lo This was a matter of pre-calculator convenience. Loaded some 308 and in both a bolt gun and AR 10 was excellent, very consistent velocity, less than 20fps extreme spread. This clearly outperforms most 9mm rounds and translates into a wound cavity around 6% larger than the 9mm. An extreme spread of 20-25 fps is acceptable for me. But by then I was focusing on motorcycle season and left the project for another time. Thus, Standard deviation and Extreme spread are measures of the same thing, dispersion. I have only used the 9mm 115g round nose at this point and have yet to purchase 45's. Most good processes in reloading, if you take your time, will yield single digit standard deviations in velocities. If you don’t have 1000 yards to test on, remember that the best predictor of long range accuracy is short range accuracy. Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:16 pm. Archived. Most reloading dies are built with a tiny vent hole to assist excessive lube in escaping, but such holes have limited efficiency. I shoot off of a rest on a bench and will chronograph the loads looking for the lower and consistent extreme spreads in velocities, not necessarily the fastest velocities. These loads turned in an extreme spread of only 24 fps with Titegroup powder, and Universal reduced velocity spread by more than half compared to the powder shot with semiwadcutter bullets. This is the minimum requirement for the rifle loads in Colorado. A low number indicates most numbers are close to the average. Last time I talked a little about keeping your ammo pressure-safe, under a range of conditions. Reloading & Wildcats. Throw in an acceptable extreme spread of 15 to 20 fps and you could be off another couple inches at that range. Is 55 fps extreme spread too much? This is the number placed into the ballistic computer as your muzzle velocity. Check out the Prometheus system. Lower standard deviation means tighter spread and the data (shot velocities) are more predictable. Here is a sample target not shot over the chrony. Also, you will want to try and obtain 2700 fps by increasing the powder. Extreme Spread 70 12. Whether you're making bulk ammo for plinking, creating the perfect hunting round, or building the best ammunition for a 500 yard shot, Midsouth has the right Rifle Bullet for your Reloading recipe. Standard Deviation 14 2. The first three shots from the trio landed in a 0.90" group, with 4 f.p.s. Extreme spread is calculated from the maximum and minimum velocity and can serve as a check to make sure the chronograph data was entered correctly. The average of all 100 Hornady ELD Match 6mm bullets was a 12.3″ wide horizontal spread and a 9.2″ vertical spread. A low extreme spread means that the accuracy of my judgment of my wind call has some support. What would be considered a reasonable Extreme Spread for hand gun loads running 700 fps to 1000 fps? The Winchester Power Point was originally intended for standard, non-magnum cartridges, and does its best work at 1800 - 2600 fps. Extreme Spread 34 6. Flash's new gun.The ejection patterning is very odd, though.Watching Mrs. Extreme spread and SD are the key to making sure your powder and, to a lesser extent, powder measure is giving you consistent performance. Throw in an acceptable extreme spread of 15 to 20 fps and you could be off another couple inches at that range. in a 6″ revolver and 950 +/- 20 in the Marlin. For purposes of ammunition, the lower the SD the better the ammunition. Using Alliant Bullseye of current manufacture it takes 3.8 grains with the Remington 158-gr. Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. What ever the velocity is,you want the Lowest Extreme Spread and the Lowest Standard Deviation you can get for Long Distance.If you are getting more than 50 fps ES i would check Prepping cases,Weighing Cases,sorting bullets by weight/ ogive length.You can even try a different brand of Primer.Getting single digit SD is very possible w/204 ruger.When you have a large velocity difference … Little more: If you read Mr. Camps excellent range reports, you'll note he clocks most of his loads, and lists the SD and Extreme spread for the different ammunition he fires. This would be quite normal for quality ammo. 6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. Weight. Neck sizing generally has a positive effect on the cartridge's accuracy. If you run range tables, you find that at around 3100 fps, a 150 fps difference causes the 55 grains Sierra BT to change vertical position about 0.25" at 100 yards. In long-range hunting and shooting, knowing your bullet’s velocity is a major factor in calculating ballistics. Dev. Long Range Shooting: Understanding Extreme Spread And Standard Deviation September 05, 2018 By G&A Online Editors With the increase in interest in long-range shooting, the terms extreme spread (ES) and standard deviation (SD) are being thrown around a lot. As far as the "end" for the ballistics gel test I was planning to do in the near future. Is 55 fps extreme spread too much? January 10th, 2019 Bullet Bell Curve — Sorting by OAL vs. Base-to-Ogive vs. Using a magnum primer where one is not called for will usually give you a couple of results. This was a single action only double stack 9mm similar to the single stack 952 but built specifically for PPC police competition. The rest were spread among the Sierra 110gr MatchKing, Nosler 105gr RDF, and Barnes 112gr Match Burner. Of the 16 shooters who said they handloaded for the 6XC, 13 of them said they were using Hodgdon H4350. As an avid shooter and reloader, I am familiar with many rifle loads and what to expect when chronographed. Bullets 1st – 7.62x51 M80 Ball 147 Gr. I did 10 throws looking for 45.75 and got a SD of .14 with a extreme spread of .45 grains. I was out shooting on Saturday and was not sure what to think of my extreme spread. lead SWC to approximate the velocity of factory standard velocity lead-bullet .38 Special loads averaging 800 +/- 20 f.p.s. +- .1 grain is acceptable. These light powder charges can cause wide swings in velocity, although all three loads for the Speer TMJ bullet listed in the load table produced acceptable extreme velocity spreads. The .40 S&W cartridge, on the other hand, can deliver significantly more energy to a target – from 460 to 588 ft-lbs on average. Rifle ammo is usually +or- 1% for quality factory loads. A spread of 10grs. I shot 18 rounds over the chrony and my extreme spread was over 50fps? The cartridge runs best with slower burning powders. Shooting was done to equalize differences between sets. I was told to check these out by a good friend of mine. Keep reading to improve your shooting and hunting skills. In working up to 1122 FPS, the load is very accurate and a ten-shot string over my Pro Chrono revealed an extreme spread of 12 FPS with standard deviation at 3. I posted that IME, it doesn't seem to be a factor in every accurate load I have come up with. Extreme spread 6.2 fps for 25 shots SD 1.50 fps Pellet .25 cal JSB King Exact Pellet, weight 25.4 gr. One reload batch might be 80 fps and another 35fps. Midsouth offers some of the best prices on bulk rifle bullets for reloading from great brands like Hornady, Berger, Nosler, Sierra, and More! The prepped cases showed less extreme weight spread (.9 grains to 1.8 grains for the unprepped .24 Nosler cases) and an extreme spread in length half that of the unprepped cases (.002 inch vs. .004 inch), suggesting Nosler’s prepped brass is demonstrably better. Acceptable velocity range with reloads. When too much lube is applied, sizing is very easy, but excess lube builds up in the die/case shoulder area. The KO factor of this load is 17.5. It boasts a case capacity of 82 grains of water. For rifle I usually shoot the same over a chromo after I find an accurate load. Magnums just give one those velocities at longer ranges. Description: Bullets 1 st 7.62 line of ammunition consists of Lake City brass, boxer-primers and projectiles. Reb, If you had a 38 Special load with a +or-2% spread ...lets say 900 fps, that would be +or- 18 fps or a total spread of 36 fps. General Discussion. What could cause the spread so wide? Share this post. Suppose the bullet was seated out of the case to the point where the base of the bullet’s nose (ogive) just contacted the beginning of the riflings (the lands) when the bolt was closed. recommendations. S&W 5906 PPC9 6″. So, in terms of shooting, they could be used to indicate how big a group was. Extreme spread would be the distance between the two most widely separated holes on the target. This is a pretty crude measure since it uses only two pieces of information. ... and was curious what an acceptable deviation in Muzzle velocity was. Like measuring the contents of a barrel in quarts or gallons, same bucket, different measures. I have not been able to find a load that results in acceptable accuracy. The extreme spread of velocity for 10 shots was only 42 fps shooting AR-Comp with Berger 52-grain bullets on a 30 degree F day. So, for 2900 fps muzzle velocities, it seems I should want to achieve velocity variations of less than 29 fps. Because of the longer cartridge length I knew I had some room to spare for the powder charge. I just wanted to let you know how much I like your platted bullets for reloading. Accuracy improved from there, with a 0.74" average for five, three-shot groups and 29 f.p.s. Ballistics is the flight characteristics of an object (in this case, a bullet.) It is definitely a nice powder but the price and lack of availability have convinced me to move on. Last Spring I was pretty disgusted with the whole shebang, until I found out my scope mount had loosened up. I … Usually, you needn't crimp the 7mm Rem Mag. Oldfart got it right again. This load also produced acceptable accuracy with an extreme spread of 9.1″ at 800 yards and 15.4″ at 1000 yards and a bonus was that it actually dropped 14″ less at 1000 yards than the 180gr SMK. Reloading For The Sig P238 .380ACP - posted in Reloading: I mentioned in my OP about Mrs. I find a bit of acceptable variation in bullet seating on my RL550 when the the RL550 ram table is trying to resist sizing forces and bullet seating forces. No, that is not what it's intended purpose was and might not expand reliably within a larger extreme spread of … This thread is about how important extreme spread is relating to accuracy. Last year I shot a 10 round group at just under 2 MOA Prone at 600 yds that scored a 97 on the NRA MR-1 target but I have not been able to repeat that. However, the extreme velocity spreads are from 35 fps to 50 fps. The extreme spread(aka “ES”… All charges weighed individually, Remington 9.5 mag primers, new barrel, (about 40 rounds at this point), .050 off the lands, all loads hand checked with Hornady comparator tool. Trimming cases to the same length placed an exact amount of crimp on the bullets. The BP Cartridge Rifle Reloading Guide (rev. You will not just be advised how to do things but you will also be given the reason why it is done that way. Load Testing Insight: 5 “Rules” for Load Work-Up. You can see this ammo displays good velocity with Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation rivaling good hand-loads. These light powder charges can cause wide swings in velocity, although all three loads for the Speer TMJ bullet listed in the load table produced acceptable extreme velocity spreads. shorty500 327 Meteor. With 4895 you will want to measure each load to decrease tolerances which will show up in extreme velocity spread or Std Dev. The average velocity was 1,069 fps, but the load’s extreme spread of 96 fps put a few rounds above the sound barrier.
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